Friday, November 20, 2009

Curse Motif Video

I have found a new website that is a real blessing: Recover the Gospel. They have a video that is worth sharing. It includes a condensed version of RC Sproul's 'Curse Motif' sermon from the T4G Conference of 2008. This sermon, listed on my sermon favorites (right panel), can be downloaded here. Please check out this video, though, and meditate on the glorious doctrine of penal substitution and what that means for sinners like us who deserve the wrath of the One and Only, Almighty God.


Anonymous said...

This sounds a lot like Jeremiah Wright, very negative, very hateful, and portrays an image of God that is judgmental, vengeful, and not very flattering to a modern world religion. What is the "glorious doctrine of penal substitution"? This all sounds like so much tripe to me. :)

Mike said...

I appreciate your comment, thanks for speaking your mind! I do tend to disagree that the curse motif is negative and hateful though. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It shows the seriousness of our sin, and sure, that's negative I suppose, but truth sometimes is negative! What Joel Osteen fails to tell you is the whole truth: God is love, but He is also HOLY. He is Righteous. He would cease to be God without an aversion for sin and whatever is NOT holy. Since sin must be punished we all (Rom 3:23) must be punished for our sin. The curse motif (and penal substitution) is talking about what Christ's death on the cross meant. Without the substitution that took place (my sins laid on Christ who bore the full brunt of God's wrath - 2 Cor 5:21) I would not have a concept of the true Love of God, who went to such extreme measures to provide salvation to a sinner like me! It's beautiful, it's absolute Love! What is penal substitution? Mark Dever explains it well in this article:

Thanks for checking out the blog and feel free to comment again anytime.

P.S. I don't know anything about Jeremiah Wright, except that he used to be Obama's pastor and has made some controversial comments. Sounds like he's too busy in politics to be preaching things like this glorious doctrine.

Skeptical said...

You are to be commended for actually posting an alternative view! I didn't expect that to happen. And, you obviously have lots of "sources" to back up your view. It would take some time to actually go through all you put out in support of your position. However, it all begs the question and assumes your readers accept the basic premise underlying it all, and that is that God actually exists and that the Bible is true and should be interpreted literally. Of course, these questions have been debated for millennium. Aside from this though, the basic problem with some religious views, such as that of R. C. Sproul and other apologists, is that they tend to focus on the negative and seem to thrive on a view of man as sinner in dire need of being punished all the time. A religious viewpoint should be positive, enriching, and inspire, rather than always dwell on the negative with a view of God as someone to be feared and the ultimate punisher. How does this engender anything positive, enriching, and inspirational? The other problem with Sproul and other apologists is that their arguments are not built on any real evidence, rather the only evidence they provide is their particular personal insight, hardly a convincing strategy. And, they have to ignore the vast body of knowledge in many areas that might contradict their position.

Regarding the reference to Wright, listen to the following link:

It is raw, but not unlike the views of others, like Sproul who want to assert that we are being punished by a vengeful God, whether it be terrorism, the "fags" of the Phelps bunch in Topeka, or the oppression of Blacks by Whites. It is all hateful, inaccurate, and unbecoming of a religious perspective that wants any credibility.

We disagree, but your views are respected!

Mike said...

Skeptical. You've said a lot and it deserves more than a quick reply. Sadly, though, given my current life situation that is all I can do right now. So I'll ask you this: Do you want your Doctor to tell you what you want to hear, or to tell the truth in regards to a terminal illness? Do you want the local weatherman to be positive and inspiring, or do you want him to warn you of a tornado, or hurricane or any other danger? Do you want a Fireman to quietly tap on your door and whisper about how comfortable you must be in your house, or do you want him to smash your door down and pull you from a blazing fire? I get an email with a quote from Spurgeon, who says this about the Christian's responsibility to warn sinners of the wrath to come: "The burden of the Lord hangs heavily on me. I must deliver myself from the blood of some of you who are living in impenitence, and who will probably die in it, and when, if you die unwarned, having often listened to my voice, may be able to reproach me in another world if I do not faithfully and earnestly bear my solemn testimony concerning the wrath to come." So I say, repent. Like everyone else you are born God's enemy and enslaved to your sin. Run to the One who took God's wrath for you. He's your only hope. That may not sound 'positive' but I'd rather be true than 'positive' if we're talking about something as important as eternal life. "The time has come," he said. Like Jesus said in Mark 1: "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news! (verse 15)" The positive side of this of course is that eternal life is not simply the escape of hell, it's abundant glorious LIFE in the face of Jesus Christ that starts now! "Because your love is better than life, my lips will glorify you. (Psalm 63:3)"

Skeptical said...

The ebb and flow of life can keep one busy at times. Don't feel at all obligated to counter my posts. You will not likely turn around a hardened skeptic anyway, any more than I will reverse your entrenched belief system. But, the polite discourse might be interesting to some.

You have obviously put a lot of work into your blog, and it is well sourced. What it lacks is a bit of counterpoint. Ideas and beliefs unchallenged can become so much propoganda or dogma. Hope you don't mind putting up some straightforward counterpoint from a skeptic. :)

Let me just answer the questions you put to me. I do want my doctor to tell me if I have a terminal illness, and he better have the x-rays or tests to document his diagnosis. And, if a tornado is bearing down on me, I do want the weatherman to warn me, but he/she better have the radar and drop in barometric readings to back it up. And, sure, if my house is on fire and I am trapped, I definitely want the fireman to break in and pull me to safety. The heat and smoke and difficulty breathing are all evidence of real impending danger. Unfortunately, the focus on warning sinners of the wrath of God does not have similar measures or evidence that the warnings are based on anything real. All we have are the pronouncements of self-appointed "experts" who cannot provide one x-ray, one sweep of a radar, or objective, observable natural phenomena to support their unbelievable claims. Rather, the "evidence" we hear is that terrorism, or "fags", or White oppression of Blacks is bringing the wrath of God on us all.

History is replete with Armageddons that have come and gone, and we are still here. Or rather, most of us are here. Some wearing tennis shoes, lying in their beds with poisons in their bodies waiting for their spaceship to come for them are not. Those who died in Jonestown at the hands of another self-professed expert are not. The Kingdom of God has been at hand for centuries, and the early Christians were quite disappointed when it did not come way back then when they first anticipated it. The time schedule has changed over the years. But, then again, 2012 is just around the corner. Perhaps, that will be the big one.

I'm ok with the warnings, although it becomes tedious and judgmental, inadvertently turning people away, but skepticism will remain unless there is some real evidence of the claims.

Thank you for your openness to other points of view! And, to be fair, you do have a lot of positive, uplifting items on your blog. But the business with Sproul and his similar message to Jeremiah Wright was striking to have endorsed on your blog.


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